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Garrison Shepard's avatar

Debated whether or not to write this. But I’m getting nowhere trying to understand the other side without someone to help me through their thinking. It’s a long comment! Sorry for that! But I’m fighting hard to understand those who I currently disagree with, so this is a genuine question. How does Shenvi’s response force the conclusion that, “In effect, he is worried, ‘Don’t let them do to my race, class, and gender what they did to my manhood!’”? Let me lay out my understanding of things so it’s clear why this line confuses me and also so you can correct me.

I take Shenvi to mean this: (1) Scripture does not permit homosexuality or transgenderism (as all sides agree). (2) The current egalitarian argument (CEA) of du Mez, Barr, yourself, etc. that is being used against AmEvComp can be employed in defense of homosexuality and transgenderism. (3) Therefore, we should reject CEA. (To be clear, point #3 doesn’t necessitate that the conclusion of CEA [that AmEvComp is unscriptural] is wrong. It only necessitates that the argument used to support this conclusion is wrong.)

Like Shenvi, the use of CEA also concerns me, *not* because I’m worried about my own interests, but because of the students I pastor. (I use “pastor” loosely, because none of the students are believers nor do their parents even attend church. I’m more an evangelist.) For them, being part of the LGBTQ+ community is integral to their identity. This is one of the biggest obstacles between them and Christ. It is very personally painful to watch them make so many self-destructive choices. This is why I do not want to see an illegitimate argument advanced that strengthens what is harmful to these students.

Yes, like Shenvi I’m admitting the current culture war plays into my concern of CEA. But before I’m charged with using the current culture war as my *reason* for rejecting egalitarianism, note that I’m *not* *necessarily* rejecting egalitarianism itself. I’m rejecting *this* argument for egalitarianism because of other givens (points #1 and #2 above) which I have a heightened awareness of because of the current culture wars. So while I am unpersuaded of egalitarianism at the moment, that does not mean I’ve shut the door on the position altogether, only on this argument for it. If egalitarianism is correct, I’m looking for another argument to convince me, since I don’t reach this conclusion in my own reading of Scripture and since I find CEA faulty.

Finally then, back to my question: How does Shenvi’s response force the conclusion that, “In effect, he is worried, ‘Don’t let them do to my race, class, and gender what they did to my manhood!’”? Let me continue to lay all my cards on the table. While you think Shenvi’s post only serves to reinforce your conclusion, from my vantage point, your post only serves to reinforce *his* conclusion, that Boulverism is being used against him. He’s made an argument in good faith and the response was to question his motives. (And if it is said that explained his motives himself, that’s exactly why I included my thought process above, to demonstrate that one can be concerned about the use of CEA without it being for self-serving reasons. I don’t take Shenvi to have self-serving motives, I take him to be someone who is concerned not to advance arguments that could be used to undercut what we all believe to be the teaching of Scripture, that homosexuality, etc. are not permitted.)

Since I’ve written so much already, one final caveat: I agree and share concerns that there are strands (I don’t have the knowledge to say how many or few) in my camp who have seriously abused complementarianism. I have listened to the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill and find Driscoll’s approach to many things abhorrent. Wherever that exists, I want it stamped out. Yet it does not *necessarily* follow (it could! It could not!) that complementarianism is wrong or that CEA is an argument we should use.

Again, genuine question! I’ve only laid out my thinking so that you can address it. Please, show me where I’m wrong!

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Paul D. Adams's avatar

Yep. Most AmEvComps I speak to aren't even aware that sunglasses exist!

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