74 Comments
Dec 21, 2021·edited Dec 21, 2021Liked by Michael F. Bird

To those who don’t know what the heck they are talking about, you should shut the heck up! Since joining our Parish, Beth and her husband Keith have been absolutely WONDERFUL people to get to know and worship with!

For those Baptists, who for the most part don’t know a damn thing about Liturgical and Sacramental worship, to be criticizing her for wearing “Priestly Garb” during the Service don’t know a damn thing about what they are talking about.

First of they are called Vestments. What she is wearing are NOT Priestly Vestments. She is a Lay Reader (she reads the prescribed Scripture readings appointed for that particular Sunday, from the Old and New Testament). A Deacon or Priest reads the Gospel reading appointed for that Sunday. Beth has also volunteered her TIME and TALENT to also become a Lay Eucharistic Minister, which involves her dispensing the Consecrated wine from the Chalice. The Vestments she is wearing are a Black Cassock and a White Surplice. Those Vestments are worn by Lay members of the congregation who are participating as members of the Altar Party during the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist. I have personally worked with Beth in her new liturgical roles and she is FANTASTIC! She has a zeal and fire for serving the Lord in these capacities! I personally couldn’t be happier to have Beth as a member of our church family! Also, in the past 10 years or so, there have been several other high profile evangelical fundamentalist Protestant clergy who have come to know a fuller and more satisfying relationship with God through liturgical and sacramental worship.

You should be ashamed of yourselves for attacking a fellow Sister in Christ, because she has found the the fulfillment of her faith journey through the liturgical and sacramental worship handed down to the Church by the Apostles themselves!

God bless Beth as she continues her new journey!

Michael Daigle

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Thanks for chiming in Michael!

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You got exposed by Jon Harris. You might check it out.

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thank you SO MUCH for that information, I love the liturgical worship service, I grew up in the 'Saints from down in the holler' denomination and I never felt the kind of holiness in those services that I felt the first time I experienced liturgical services. Thanks for all that detail cause so many of us want to know but are afraid to ask. It is so much quieter and more reverent and I dare say holy than the cult of personality churches I grew up in that are fandoms for this pastor or that one.

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As an Anglican and former baptist, she would not serve communion as that is relegated to Priests and Deacons. Just because they may not be Anglo, or Catholic, or wear a cassock, that isn't the argument. The argument is, has and the Tweet from Martin is WO.

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Same holds true for Episcopalian and Anglican clerics who have nothing but nuanced “experience” with Baptists. Shyte rhetoric among Anglicans and Episcopalians is easily met in kind by Baptists. We excell at such.

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Can we just call them religious trappings, regardless of whether they are suits and ties with a cross and crown lapel pin or “vestments”?Eternal weight is equal and insignificant in both cases IMO.

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We may not know all the tools and trappings of Anglicans, but Southern Baptists certainly knew the Baptist distinctives that Beth Moore claimed to hold for years…until she and LPM suddenly did not, along with the Lil Prince of Cloak and Dagger Russ Moore. Pox on their charades IMO

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What exactly is the point you are trying to make? And by the way, we Anglicans don't have "tools and trappings" (what ever you were referring to there), we have the Liturgy, which is the same Liturgy that the Christian Church has been using since the 1st Century AD. If you want to be an authentic Christian, you should worship the Lord in the same manner that the Apostles did and from them was passed down through the Church all the way back to it's beginnings.

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Not ALL the “Christian Church”… so there is that, historically. Observances of seasons and calendars kinda took a back seat in priorities according to the prophets, Jesus AND the apostles. Just saying.

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I have taken MANY classes on early Church history and have read many books on it. From the very earliest days of the church, a liturgy was developed and has been used ever since then. There is a document called the Didache that documents in detail the methods of worship of the early Christian church (even as early as circa 100 A.D.). In that and other documents, the Liturgy used by the Church back then is almost identical to the Liturgy used today in the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches.

It is churches such as Baptist, Assembly of God, and all the plethora of other fundamentalist evangelical churches who chose to abandon the Liturgy and the faith handed down to us by the Apostles and the early Church Fathers.

If you study early church history, you will see that the Liturgical Churches (listed above) practice the authentic form of Christian worship.

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Will see your “many classes” and raise you an MDiv and terminal degree in church history. The didache was a first century and pre canon primer. We are two thousand years into this thing now cowboy. Not to mention that overemphasis on judging others by the observances of seasons and holy days was something that both Christ and the apostles declared could become both a source of pride and distraction from the very gospel itself. Prove me wrong with something other than ignorance and ritual.

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Oh my...all of this exchange is sad and lacking in love and charity... And the irony of using the language of "raise you"... what, we're in a casino now? Maybe it's time to throw some tables around :)

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Dec 21, 2021Liked by Michael F. Bird

She’s actually dressed as a Lay Reader and a Chalice Bearer rather than a priest. So much Christian love and kindness here!

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You are exactly correct!!

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Dec 21, 2021Liked by Michael F. Bird

Many Baptists do not know the difference between American Episcopalians and American Anglicans. Of course. If they think Donald Trump is a Christian, their spiritual perception may not be too good either...

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Dec 21, 2021·edited Dec 21, 2021Liked by Michael F. Bird

You are correct. The Anglican Church in North America (ACNA), is a totally separate denomination from the Episcopal Church USA.

The ACNA was formed approximately 10 years ago as an alternative Anglican jurisdiction, to be a haven for conservative / orthodox Episcopalians who could no longer tolerate the ultraliberal and heretical positions that the hierarchy of the Episcopal Church was implementing. While both denominations have their roots in the worldwide Anglican Communion, theologically, they couldn’t be further apart. But as you said, most, if not all Christians in the U.S. have no clue about the differences between the two.

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And many Anglicans and Episcopalians obviously know even less about baptists, anabaptists and radical reformers. Pots calling kettles black.

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Perhaps; however, it's been my experience that Anglicans/Episcopalians know more about Baptists because, well, many were former Baptists themselves.

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Most of my new members during a six year tenure in one Louisiana church were defecting members from the Episcopalian church across the street and the Anglican Church around the corner and cross the river. We ALL got “experiences”. They vary.

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Trump is a better Christian and receiver of truth than many Rectors and canticlers and missioners I have encountered. More grounded in biblical substance and belief as well. Smoke on that.

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I voted for trump, and even others who voted for him know full well that he is not a Christian. He claimed quite boldly that he does not confess his sins.

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Many are not interested in knowing the difference. Reason they are Baptist.

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Well, many Baptists, and other evangelicals, think that there are Christians and the there are Catholics. Sorry, but Catholics, and Orthodox, are Christians. They don't that it is Protestant and Catholic or Orthodox.

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Yes, MANY Baptists and other fundamentalist evangelical denominations to not acknowledge Roman Catholics (and probably all of the various Orthodox churches) as being Christians.

One big “inconvenient truth” for them is the FACT that up until the year 1054, when the Eastern Catholic Church and the Western Catholic Church split into two distinctive separate churches, there was only ONE Christian Church in the entire world and that was the Catholic Church. And even after the “Great Schism” of 1054, the ONLY Christian churches in the entire world was the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, up until the Protestant Reformation in the 1,500’s. So, if it were not for the Catholic Church, none of their denominations would have ever existed!

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Dec 21, 2021Liked by Michael F. Bird

Dr. Bird — and I mean this gently — Rod D. Martin tweets should come with TRIGGER WARNINGS!! <3

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Thus far you have found shelter in the harbour of my generosity, but that harbour is now closed for a week. You are banned for a week. Take your Trump-loving Anglican-hating show to another website. Come back with something more constructive and collegial to share.

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Dec 20, 2021Liked by Michael F. Bird

Why was First Baptist Dallas having a Christmas service on December 19? It was the 4th Sunday of Advent at my church and the Spanish choir was outstanding, if you'll pardon the self-congratulation. We only get to do "La Virgen Suena Caminos" once a year!

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The reason is simple. Baptist churches are non-Liturgical churches and therefore, they do not observe the Christian calendar and the Liturgical seasons throughout the year. Saying to them that it is only the 4th Sunday of Advent, is like speaking Martian to them, as they do not observe or recognize the Liturgical season of Advent to begin with.

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Horse feathers. Of course Baptists celebrate Advent. We do it a little different with fewer props and toys.

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I married a Southern Baptist (who like Beth Moore is now an Anglican) and I went to church with her and her family at a very large Southern Baptist church when we were dating. I never once heard the word Advent said in that church, much less celebrating Advent. Who are you tying to kid. Baptists do not observe the liturgical seasons.

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Like I said, Anglicans are apparently as myopic and ignorant as the SBCers they condemn. Pastored SBC churches for twenty years. And in each, the seasons of advent and Easter were observed in line with both our tradition and our ecclesiastical preference. Sell it to Beth Moore.

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Having thought about it more, I realized that December 19 was the Sunday preceding December 25, a Saturday. It "makes sense" to hold the "Christmas sermon" on December 19, because Christmas is over and forgotten on December 26, the following Sunday.

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Christmas is NOT over on Dec. 26th. Christmas is a Season of the Church which only BEGINS on Dec. 25th. The Christmas (liturgical) Season lasts for 12 days (you know, you’ve heard the song) and runs from Christmas Day through Epiphany, on January 6th.

But as I said in my original reply, Baptists are non-liturgical and they do not abide by, or recognize the Church’s liturgical calendar.

So, no it would not be appropriate to preach a Christmas sermon on the 4th Sunday of Advent. Christmas sermons should be preached on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and on each of the Sundays during the Christmas season.

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I phrased my previous comment poorly. I meant that, for the general public and churches without a liturgical calendar, Christmas is over on December 25.

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Inderstood

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It would be “appropriate” to preach a “Christmas” message on any or all of the 365 days of the calendar year if the Holy Spirit quickens it in the hearts and ears of those hearing IMO. God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.

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You must be under the mistaken impression that Baptist churches (especially) SBC are all similar rather than being unique autonomous units. Not as culturally conversant as you have convinced yourself it would appear. My SBC church observes Advent, has for twenty years of my membership. Beth and her husband must not understand the diversity of SBC churches even after they platformed her act until recently.

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Jan 30, 2022·edited Jan 30, 2022

ACNA confirmed here! Sadly Archbishop Foley Beach of ACNA went WOKE and I hope he is kicked out soon. Otherwise I LOVE ACNA....except those few locations that are obsessed with the Globalist agenda's like diversity etc. But EVERY denomination is infiltrated. Watch EnemiesWtihinTheChurch.com promoted by the Epoch Times to REALLY understand what is happening. (I watched on Vimeo.) Honestly ACNA has brought me closer to God. Blessings everyone and WATCH the movie! PS Having a great former U.S. president speak at any church would be a blessing! Especially a great man like President Trump!

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1) I have some discomfort with "high church" in general, mainly because it seems too much like the Obsolete Covenant, but it's not something I'd get real exercised about.

2) I fully support women serving in any ministry open to men. (Well, except things like "men's room attendant," if such a ministry exists.)

3) I'm a supporter of Bad Orange Man, but that event at Jeffress's church was ridiculous.

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Just noticed the caption below Rod's tweet. There does not appear to be a single non-idiotic sentence. Sheesh.

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Will take a “fool” or “idiot” for Christ any day of the week over navel gazers. So there is that, respectfully.

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As a South African, this whole conversation completely blows my mind. What a storm in a teacup.

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As I read this, I was reminded of what John reported about Jesus command to the apostles:

“So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples” (NLT).

The context? Jesus, as a house slave, washes the disciples feet!

How can people believe that we are truly people of God and disciples of Jesus when there is bickering, schism, and lack of agape.

How can a minister of the Gospel condemn another believer for whom Christ died just because they serve God within a different tradition?

This is one of the reasons the Christian church in United States has lost credibility and is is seen as part of a political party.

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How do you plan to counter that perception. More bellyaching and posturing?

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Was Liam Goligher (minister of 10th Presbyterian Church, Philadelphia, apostate because he "changed" from being a baptist to being a presbyterian?? Was my wonderful pastor at Charlotte Baptist Chapel in Edinburgh apostate when he chose to worship at a presbyterian church after retiring from pastoral ministry?

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The Adult Education Director (part-time) at my church was an Executive Pastor at a PC-USA church before he retired. Then he became a Catholic. Super nice and interesting man.

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This whole thread is interesting and I’m late to the party. What is interesting is that not one person here noted BM’s support of the Marxists of BLM and those types of statements she made when she broke away from the Baptists. I could care less where she was and where she ended up. The issue I had was her pushing a Marxist, racist agenda that has no place in the church or America for that matter. Everyone is bickering over denominations and missed the elephant in the room.

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To both the Anglicans and the Baptist’s who are making there comments: “accusations and quarrels generate much heat, but dialogue generates much light”. We should try to least understand each other. This tribal mentality is not good. I confess that I was never a fan of Beth more’s ministry. There were criticisms I have as well.

Never the less, I welcome her into ACNA for I too am a sooner in need of Grace.

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Would be willing to bet that Beth Moore is enamored more right now with a change of scenery than confident in the doctrines and liturgy that will drive her at some point back to her roots. Part of the personal spiritual growth cycle. Some are late bloomers in this category. Just sayin.

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Looks like Anglicans are as ignorant of Southern Baptists as the Baptists are of Anglicans. Call this one a draw.

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Nothing against Anglicans, the dichotomy of Beth Moore is the subject of interest.

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The ignorance... it's painful. I absolutely know people who would gobble those tweets up like candy, it's maddening to think that the people "at the top" in these denominations(that thrive off from their members being ignorant and holding these stereotypes) MUST be aware and have no excuse to continue to foster this to enrich themselves. We live in a day when ignorance to that degree is unacceptable, these leaders have access to more information than ever before... rant over.

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See every bit as much “ignorance” in the Anglican comments here as the Baptists. Just saying.

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