I broadly agree with the assessment of these reviews. Having read the book and found it very helpful and well balanced in what is normally such a partisan discussion I went looking for reviews hoping to find some constructive engagement with some of the specific points the book raises. But these reviews were so frustrating for the points you make. I was particularly disappointed by DA Carson's who I normally find so fair and clear minded. His, albeit brief response, seemed to completely misrepresent what I found so often to be a careful and judicious weighing up of evidence and strength of argument with the explicit goal of arriving at a conclusion.
One point on the frequency of the word patriarchy - I presume Sharon James was referring also to patriarchy related words (patriarchal, patriarchalism) which are used frequently through the book.
Bartlett's logic is a balm to my embattled mind as I face deeply held beliefs and ideologies on this issue of women. I also have something I would like to add to his discussion on Ephesians 5. Michael, it would be an honor if you would read my linked blog post titled "To A. Bartlett by way of a Bird" and pass it along to Andrew. Thank you.
Because it impacts/directs/governs the nature of relationships of women & men in the home & in the church. AND, because it governs how women are allowed to use their Spirit-given gifts in the church.
It is an embarrassingly locked-in-the-last century way of glossing over the real problem of overclericalisation, the unanswered question about abuse of all kinds in the "church" and its community.
I agree, faymagee; however this is the situation we live in. We are tasked with living out Christ-in-us where we are, allowing God to live into that place through his Spirit in us. Even though the system is morphed, we can still allow God to work in and change it through us. Otherwise we throw out the hope for change with the bathwater of the broken system.
thanks Kristin, glad to find your blog too. Yes, bathwater and hope for change... I'm losing it all in a 'system' where women may appear to have equality in being ordained to all orders but in fact where the system is totally over-clericalised, where women maintain the toxic white male hierarchical structures which continue to keep lay women (high percentage of attendees) in positions of submission.
Thank you for this guest post. I included Bartlett’s book as required reading in my new online course, Theology of Women Academy.
I broadly agree with the assessment of these reviews. Having read the book and found it very helpful and well balanced in what is normally such a partisan discussion I went looking for reviews hoping to find some constructive engagement with some of the specific points the book raises. But these reviews were so frustrating for the points you make. I was particularly disappointed by DA Carson's who I normally find so fair and clear minded. His, albeit brief response, seemed to completely misrepresent what I found so often to be a careful and judicious weighing up of evidence and strength of argument with the explicit goal of arriving at a conclusion.
One point on the frequency of the word patriarchy - I presume Sharon James was referring also to patriarchy related words (patriarchal, patriarchalism) which are used frequently through the book.
Bartlett's logic is a balm to my embattled mind as I face deeply held beliefs and ideologies on this issue of women. I also have something I would like to add to his discussion on Ephesians 5. Michael, it would be an honor if you would read my linked blog post titled "To A. Bartlett by way of a Bird" and pass it along to Andrew. Thank you.
https://coffeewithkristin.wordpress.com/2022/03/12/to-a-bartlett-by-way-of-a-bird/
Maybe it’s the sunk cost fallacy writ large?
Why is so much time and energy being spent on this 'argument' ...?
Because it impacts/directs/governs the nature of relationships of women & men in the home & in the church. AND, because it governs how women are allowed to use their Spirit-given gifts in the church.
It is an embarrassingly locked-in-the-last century way of glossing over the real problem of overclericalisation, the unanswered question about abuse of all kinds in the "church" and its community.
I agree, faymagee; however this is the situation we live in. We are tasked with living out Christ-in-us where we are, allowing God to live into that place through his Spirit in us. Even though the system is morphed, we can still allow God to work in and change it through us. Otherwise we throw out the hope for change with the bathwater of the broken system.
thanks Kristin, glad to find your blog too. Yes, bathwater and hope for change... I'm losing it all in a 'system' where women may appear to have equality in being ordained to all orders but in fact where the system is totally over-clericalised, where women maintain the toxic white male hierarchical structures which continue to keep lay women (high percentage of attendees) in positions of submission.