I was about to say I can't wait to read it, but I discover that this book is already released, in Canada at least. Guess what I'll be doing today.
I've always felt a cognitive dissonance between the usual evangelical stance which is based on flimsy evidence from Scripture, and the broader biblical ethic of love and inclusiveness.
Not having read the book, but just having looked into the reviews, it appears we have another modern attempt to move away from historical biblical norms, misunderstanding the human sin problem, under the cloak of good rhetoric but poor reasoning.
Hi Chris, yes, I go home to a wife, of 43 years, which is the biblical picture of marriage. There *is* biblical friendship and companionship, i.e. Jonathan and David, but it is not a *sexual* relationship as Hayes allows. If you read Preston Sprinkle's review (he has had a copy to read and review) he points out the failure of the book to engage in any of that, as it only presents its narrow core argument of God changing His mind and widening mercy, and then applying that to areas without engaging other hugely significant sections of Scripture. Which fits nicely with modern culture. I'm very sad and disappointed that a NT scholar is presenting these ideas. Scripture is revelation, and it is not subject to poorly reasoned whims and wrinkles of the human mind, regardless of how scholarly.
Firstly, whilst David ultimately repents, I am careful when using him as any kind of role model given his penchant for murder, war and adultery.
Second, I am glad that you get to go home to a loving partner!!. If someone were to argue that your relationship can never be valid and that you must live out the entirety of your life without her, I would like to think that someone would stand up for you.
I have worked in front line Emergency room/ mental health environments for decades and can tell you that the spectre of human aloneness/ enforced loneliness can have catastrophic effects- ie slabs in morgues/ suicide ect- Believe me when i tell you you don't ever want to see that!!
I acknowledge that we can't grant same sex unions in our churches but surely we can do more than effectively demand that LGBT + individuals have to go home alone every single night of there lives into perpetuity. Hays, who is reaching the end of his life, probable now thinks they at least deserve something more than that...?
Chris, the David and Jonathan story is not related in any way to David's sin. He is called a man after God's own heart. Jesus is called the son of David. Separate all that from his sin. As to LGBTQ going home alone, we can't approve of what the Bible calls sin to meet emotional needs. God has other ways.
Well, you may be be right, Randy..... I sort of hope you are.... otherwise, the insistence that someone must live alone for the term of their natural lives would seem so awfully cruel an imposition, and I simply cant worship a God who is cruel.
Most human beings need companionship for good health and functioning. The vast majority of us seek this in romantic relationship with another. Those who insist that certain others can never seek or have it in their lifetime need to know the cost on those they impose this on. It would appear that Hayes the elder is no longer willing to do this.....
Am looking forward to this book being available in Australia.
Read the book. And look at 1 Sam 15, on which the Hayses comment: "For Samuel and many readers of the Bible today, it is a comfort and a bedrock idea that God “is the same yesterday and today and forever” (Heb 13:8), and that, as Isaiah put it, “The grass withers, the flower fades; / but the word of our God will stand forever” (Isa 40:8). We suggest that for those who would like to make sense of the Bible, these statements about God’s unchanging word must somehow be held together with a long tradition of examples where God does in fact change his mind—and so do faithful people. In particular, God repeatedly changes his mind in ways that expand the sphere of his love, preserve his relationship with humankind, and protect and show mercy toward them. Because of that, we are forced to conclude that many religious conservatives, however well-intentioned, are wrong about the most essential point of theology: the character of God."
Hays, Christopher B; Hays, Richard B. The Widening of God's Mercy: Sexuality Within the Biblical Story (pp. 11-12). Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.
I was about to say I can't wait to read it, but I discover that this book is already released, in Canada at least. Guess what I'll be doing today.
I've always felt a cognitive dissonance between the usual evangelical stance which is based on flimsy evidence from Scripture, and the broader biblical ethic of love and inclusiveness.
Not having read the book, but just having looked into the reviews, it appears we have another modern attempt to move away from historical biblical norms, misunderstanding the human sin problem, under the cloak of good rhetoric but poor reasoning.
Randy... do you get to go home to a partner....?
Hi Chris, yes, I go home to a wife, of 43 years, which is the biblical picture of marriage. There *is* biblical friendship and companionship, i.e. Jonathan and David, but it is not a *sexual* relationship as Hayes allows. If you read Preston Sprinkle's review (he has had a copy to read and review) he points out the failure of the book to engage in any of that, as it only presents its narrow core argument of God changing His mind and widening mercy, and then applying that to areas without engaging other hugely significant sections of Scripture. Which fits nicely with modern culture. I'm very sad and disappointed that a NT scholar is presenting these ideas. Scripture is revelation, and it is not subject to poorly reasoned whims and wrinkles of the human mind, regardless of how scholarly.
Hi Randy,
Firstly, whilst David ultimately repents, I am careful when using him as any kind of role model given his penchant for murder, war and adultery.
Second, I am glad that you get to go home to a loving partner!!. If someone were to argue that your relationship can never be valid and that you must live out the entirety of your life without her, I would like to think that someone would stand up for you.
I have worked in front line Emergency room/ mental health environments for decades and can tell you that the spectre of human aloneness/ enforced loneliness can have catastrophic effects- ie slabs in morgues/ suicide ect- Believe me when i tell you you don't ever want to see that!!
I acknowledge that we can't grant same sex unions in our churches but surely we can do more than effectively demand that LGBT + individuals have to go home alone every single night of there lives into perpetuity. Hays, who is reaching the end of his life, probable now thinks they at least deserve something more than that...?
Don't you think....?
Chris, the David and Jonathan story is not related in any way to David's sin. He is called a man after God's own heart. Jesus is called the son of David. Separate all that from his sin. As to LGBTQ going home alone, we can't approve of what the Bible calls sin to meet emotional needs. God has other ways.
Well, you may be be right, Randy..... I sort of hope you are.... otherwise, the insistence that someone must live alone for the term of their natural lives would seem so awfully cruel an imposition, and I simply cant worship a God who is cruel.
Most human beings need companionship for good health and functioning. The vast majority of us seek this in romantic relationship with another. Those who insist that certain others can never seek or have it in their lifetime need to know the cost on those they impose this on. It would appear that Hayes the elder is no longer willing to do this.....
Am looking forward to this book being available in Australia.
Does God change His mind, I don’t think so. Does our understanding of God’s grace and love change, yes.
Read the book. And look at 1 Sam 15, on which the Hayses comment: "For Samuel and many readers of the Bible today, it is a comfort and a bedrock idea that God “is the same yesterday and today and forever” (Heb 13:8), and that, as Isaiah put it, “The grass withers, the flower fades; / but the word of our God will stand forever” (Isa 40:8). We suggest that for those who would like to make sense of the Bible, these statements about God’s unchanging word must somehow be held together with a long tradition of examples where God does in fact change his mind—and so do faithful people. In particular, God repeatedly changes his mind in ways that expand the sphere of his love, preserve his relationship with humankind, and protect and show mercy toward them. Because of that, we are forced to conclude that many religious conservatives, however well-intentioned, are wrong about the most essential point of theology: the character of God."
Hays, Christopher B; Hays, Richard B. The Widening of God's Mercy: Sexuality Within the Biblical Story (pp. 11-12). Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.
Would be interested in you saying more about this at some point:
"It is a terrific book, even while I disagree with a lot of it,..."
Was surprised by "a lot"
Ian, I'm not a pacifist!