Dr Bird, As a pastor for 30 years in the non-denominational tradition, I receive what you are saying and agree wholeheartedly with some aspects of your evaluation. Gavin is a friend of mine and I appreciate your positive review of his book, I learned quite a bit from his historical review. Though it is not a direct response to your critique of modern Protestantism, his book "Finding the Right Hills to Die on: The Case for Theological Triage" addresses how we fragmented Protestants can start (and continue) a meaningful dialogue about our differences. I would love to hear your thoughts about that book also.
Thanks Dr. Bird I’m planning to read Dr. Ortland’s book. So many books so little time. Also wanted to add a comment about your books review about creeds of the church. The book sounds interesting though it’s a lot of pages. I’m reading through a similar book by Dr. Carl Trueman titled Crisis of Confidence: Reclaiming the Historic Faith in a Culture Consumed with Individualism and Identity. Definitely ought to check that one out
Thanks Dr. Bird for responding back. I would if you could give an estimate of how many books 📚 you read in year. I don’t know how you manage your all these books that fast. My max is to read about 5 at time along with most importantly the Bible/ scripture/Holy Writ !, without loosing comprehension and focus along with my 40-45 hr job.? Also curious what is your favorite theological book you have ever read? Or maybe your top five
Thank you so much for the video and the transcript of it. A couple of thoughts come to mind.
1. Is the debate over the viability of Protestantism really a debate? Yes - I know that there are Protestants who are enamored with the traditions of Catholicism, etc. and make the move. That being said there are far more Protestants that are staying Protestant. They may not like the pig-pen, but it is THEIR pig-pen.
2. I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Protestantism is about "retrieval" of apostolic tradition and practice. Having grown up Protestant (evangelical) I find that most Protestants don't value and have not read the Fathers and are not well-versed in the apostolic age at all. In fact, there is a certain rejection of the authority that the Fathers dealt with. After all, Protestants (as you said), have a problem with authority.
Thanks for the post - I hope my comments made sense.
Agreed, if I mention or quote a church father in my context as a leader in a Christian school it is met with some vague feeling of being odd or suspect. It goes further, few people even know the reformers or puritans or any famous monastics. There is no sense of tradition in most Protestant evangelical and Pentecostal groups. This is why I am Anglican and though I am in a lower church setting, I long for a resurgence of a sacramental church that loves its tradition. Kind of along the lines of Gerald McDermotts book Deep Anglicanism.
It’s a curious choice for a subtitle, too, as the Reformers themselves argued for the ongoing work of reformation, not that it is complete. So Roger Olson’s take in his book 𝘙𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘳𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘨 is not just less conservative (in terms of entrenching vested interests and a habitual rejection of change) but far more Protestant.
Dr Bird, As a pastor for 30 years in the non-denominational tradition, I receive what you are saying and agree wholeheartedly with some aspects of your evaluation. Gavin is a friend of mine and I appreciate your positive review of his book, I learned quite a bit from his historical review. Though it is not a direct response to your critique of modern Protestantism, his book "Finding the Right Hills to Die on: The Case for Theological Triage" addresses how we fragmented Protestants can start (and continue) a meaningful dialogue about our differences. I would love to hear your thoughts about that book also.
Maybe one day Tony. I have a big reading list.
Thanks Dr. Bird I’m planning to read Dr. Ortland’s book. So many books so little time. Also wanted to add a comment about your books review about creeds of the church. The book sounds interesting though it’s a lot of pages. I’m reading through a similar book by Dr. Carl Trueman titled Crisis of Confidence: Reclaiming the Historic Faith in a Culture Consumed with Individualism and Identity. Definitely ought to check that one out
Yes, Kinzig is dense and technical, but epic for guys like me. Trueman's might be more accessible.
Thanks Dr. Bird for responding back. I would if you could give an estimate of how many books 📚 you read in year. I don’t know how you manage your all these books that fast. My max is to read about 5 at time along with most importantly the Bible/ scripture/Holy Writ !, without loosing comprehension and focus along with my 40-45 hr job.? Also curious what is your favorite theological book you have ever read? Or maybe your top five
Thank you so much for the video and the transcript of it. A couple of thoughts come to mind.
1. Is the debate over the viability of Protestantism really a debate? Yes - I know that there are Protestants who are enamored with the traditions of Catholicism, etc. and make the move. That being said there are far more Protestants that are staying Protestant. They may not like the pig-pen, but it is THEIR pig-pen.
2. I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Protestantism is about "retrieval" of apostolic tradition and practice. Having grown up Protestant (evangelical) I find that most Protestants don't value and have not read the Fathers and are not well-versed in the apostolic age at all. In fact, there is a certain rejection of the authority that the Fathers dealt with. After all, Protestants (as you said), have a problem with authority.
Thanks for the post - I hope my comments made sense.
Agreed, if I mention or quote a church father in my context as a leader in a Christian school it is met with some vague feeling of being odd or suspect. It goes further, few people even know the reformers or puritans or any famous monastics. There is no sense of tradition in most Protestant evangelical and Pentecostal groups. This is why I am Anglican and though I am in a lower church setting, I long for a resurgence of a sacramental church that loves its tradition. Kind of along the lines of Gerald McDermotts book Deep Anglicanism.
I find it very strange in these "Protestant vs Catholic" discussions that Eastern Orthodoxy is almost totally ignored or barely receives a mention.
This is a good lecture on how some of the early reformers attempted to align themselves to the most ancient Apostolic Church: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNO29Q4ppXk
A good book on the Protestant Reformation from an Orthodox perspective is "Rock and Sand" by Fr. Josiah Trenham.
It’s a curious choice for a subtitle, too, as the Reformers themselves argued for the ongoing work of reformation, not that it is complete. So Roger Olson’s take in his book 𝘙𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘳𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘨 is not just less conservative (in terms of entrenching vested interests and a habitual rejection of change) but far more Protestant.