Hi Michael: Upon the provocation of your question, I decided to do a troll through the LXX and I came across this interesting verse in Psalm 138: verse 8:
(ESV) The LORD will fulfill his purpose for me; your steadfast love, O LORD, endures forever. Do not forsake the work of your hands..
So briefly, the LXX states: “ κύριος ἀνταποδώσει ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ … etc “ and the standard Hebrew states “ יְהוָה יִגְמֹר בַּעֲדִי …. etc “ and so the Hebrew verb “ יִגְמֹר “ is translated in the LXX as “ ὑπὲρ “ . But the conjugation of the Hebrew verb is a standard YIQTOL ( because it has the prefix yod ) and which is the imperfect tense and it broadly means “ to complete or finish “ (TWOT 363, pp168) “ and because it is Yiqtol, the verb is usually translated according to context as “ WILL complete or finish “ and so I would translate this as “ Yahweh will complete or finish on my behalf ..etc “ .But notice that the Psalmist makes this “ὑπὲρ“ statement of appeal on the basis of Yahweh’s steadfast love “ יְהוָה חַסְדְּךָ לְעוֹלָם “ ( Yahweh your HESED ( is) everlasting ).. So here is a link between “ὑπὲρ “ and Yahweh’s Hesed – covenantal love (TWOT 698 pp 305) … So Michael please do keep throwing out some more of these provocative questions … blessings ..
Thanks for this. Super helpful. One time I did a sermon series on different models of the atonement, and I know Skye Jethani had a series in his With God Daily devotional about this. I want to keep learning!
55 years a believer and I still cant claim to understand it. I do know that I am simply unable to believe in Atonement via penal substitution. It is an interesting fact that the Patristics didn't given it the time and energy we do. Did the reformers make too much of it? Is it scandalous or heretical to even suggest that? There is a concept/ phenomena in Psychiatry known as the "over valued idea"- which is to overly focus on something at the expense of other important things (often resulting in dysfunction and loss of equilibrium). Put simply, for me at least, In order to show us how to live ,Jesus embodied perfect Love and obedience and died because of it. I also, at times, observe that those who seem to like to focus primarily on atonement can also be less likely to be trying to emulate Christ, and if we are not trying to do that , Im not sure we can claim to be following him.
Did you ever get around to doing a response to some criticisms that a fellow called Andrew Rillera levelled at your defence of PSA in a series of posts Chris Tilling's blog a year or so ago? I'd be interested to hear your response.
It was not one man dying instead of all mankind it was all mankind dying "in" one man. As the corporate representative of the entire human race when the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15 n Hebrew Adam means mankind) gained the victory over sin in the "flesh" and tasted the wages of sin at the cross all mankind was corporately "in" Him. This is the central theme of P all of Paul's Epistles...
Hi Michael: Upon the provocation of your question, I decided to do a troll through the LXX and I came across this interesting verse in Psalm 138: verse 8:
(ESV) The LORD will fulfill his purpose for me; your steadfast love, O LORD, endures forever. Do not forsake the work of your hands..
So briefly, the LXX states: “ κύριος ἀνταποδώσει ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ … etc “ and the standard Hebrew states “ יְהוָה יִגְמֹר בַּעֲדִי …. etc “ and so the Hebrew verb “ יִגְמֹר “ is translated in the LXX as “ ὑπὲρ “ . But the conjugation of the Hebrew verb is a standard YIQTOL ( because it has the prefix yod ) and which is the imperfect tense and it broadly means “ to complete or finish “ (TWOT 363, pp168) “ and because it is Yiqtol, the verb is usually translated according to context as “ WILL complete or finish “ and so I would translate this as “ Yahweh will complete or finish on my behalf ..etc “ .But notice that the Psalmist makes this “ὑπὲρ“ statement of appeal on the basis of Yahweh’s steadfast love “ יְהוָה חַסְדְּךָ לְעוֹלָם “ ( Yahweh your HESED ( is) everlasting ).. So here is a link between “ὑπὲρ “ and Yahweh’s Hesed – covenantal love (TWOT 698 pp 305) … So Michael please do keep throwing out some more of these provocative questions … blessings ..
HI Eric, yes, interesting observations.
Thanks for this. Super helpful. One time I did a sermon series on different models of the atonement, and I know Skye Jethani had a series in his With God Daily devotional about this. I want to keep learning!
Great idea for a sermon series Jenn.
I think it probably confused most of the penal-substitutionary-atonement-only folk, but *I* sure benefitted from it!
Very helpful and clear.
Thank you.
Peter Keith
Arrgh, Atonement!
55 years a believer and I still cant claim to understand it. I do know that I am simply unable to believe in Atonement via penal substitution. It is an interesting fact that the Patristics didn't given it the time and energy we do. Did the reformers make too much of it? Is it scandalous or heretical to even suggest that? There is a concept/ phenomena in Psychiatry known as the "over valued idea"- which is to overly focus on something at the expense of other important things (often resulting in dysfunction and loss of equilibrium). Put simply, for me at least, In order to show us how to live ,Jesus embodied perfect Love and obedience and died because of it. I also, at times, observe that those who seem to like to focus primarily on atonement can also be less likely to be trying to emulate Christ, and if we are not trying to do that , Im not sure we can claim to be following him.
Did you ever get around to doing a response to some criticisms that a fellow called Andrew Rillera levelled at your defence of PSA in a series of posts Chris Tilling's blog a year or so ago? I'd be interested to hear your response.
It was not one man dying instead of all mankind it was all mankind dying "in" one man. As the corporate representative of the entire human race when the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15 n Hebrew Adam means mankind) gained the victory over sin in the "flesh" and tasted the wages of sin at the cross all mankind was corporately "in" Him. This is the central theme of P all of Paul's Epistles...