During the Iraq War and Afghanistan Occupation, it was very common to find Christian pacifists declaiming the evils of war, the inadequacies of just war theory, rallying against the military-industrial complex, and denouncing the evil American empire and the hawkish global elites who profit from the carnage of war.
Jul 1, 2023·edited Jul 1, 2023Liked by Michael F. Bird
Where have all the pacifists gone? Christian nonviolence guy here. Pacifist, if you like.
I agree that Ukraine's position is probably the closest thing we've seen in the modern era that meets standard Just War criteria (excepting reasonable chance of success). But more basically, it seems to me the question is not whether human governments should defend themselves against wacky neo-Byzantine autocrats. The question is whether children of light are to wield the weapons of the world. There seems to be no biblical or patristic evidence in support of doing so, and only evidence to the contrary. In truth, Just War theory is only a hairs-breadth from Christian nonviolence in practice, but reminding my Just War friends of this is typically met by their telling shagrin. I find that interesting. Especially in here in America on July 4th weekend!
I would be so curious, Dr Bird, to hear you as a patristic expert speak to this, and explain why you reject Christian nonviolence based on the NT and early church witness!
I believe Jesus calls us to non-violence. Hard to read him any other way. Jesus was not a pacifist, but did not resist violently. Therefore, I am not a pacifist either. I believe Christian’s should be non-violent. Earthly Kingdoms will always find themselves entangled in armed conflict. I believe Jesus call his followers to not participate. We are told to seek the Kingdom of Heaven. There is no violence in the (already and not yet) Kingdom of Heaven. Just war theory may apply to earthly kingdoms but not in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Can you please write a post about how just war fits with the theology we see in the New Testament. And how does Jesus continue or refocus our understanding of war in the Old Testament. I’m not a pacifist. I also don’t understand how a majority of Christian came to hold the view of just war.
In this system of things ruled and mislead by the Devil (2Cor4:4) wars between nations are inevitable and prophesied but the only just war is God's war against the Devil and his demons and the kings of the Earth at Armageddon (the Mountain of Assembly).
I am sure that in C21 (and perhaps for a long time before), there is no such thing as a "Just war" - but sometimes they are inevitable and necessary in our imperfect world. It seems nearly impossible to meet all these conditions for war. And if we look at the last 100 years or so, how many wars have actually been just? Maybe a handful. So I guess that I am a "Pragmatic Pacifist" - non-violence if at all possible, but sometimes it will just not work.
I take the same approach as you on Just War after having read Augustine. I'm also a Republican, an American, and a supporter of the war in Ukraine. What drew me to Just War was Afghanistan and Iraq. I knew people who either struggled with, or had family/friends/loved ones, struggle with PTSD, death, and injuries. It dawned on me one day that we're sending young men to harms way to occupy nations to fight civilians...and all they get, literally was a lousy ribbon and a hearty "Thank you for your service." It was disheartening because these occupations had no end, we had no real enemy...and I couldn't support it.
But I do support the US's involvement in Ukraine. Mostly because I've watched Russia's involvement in the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election where a candidate was poisoned by Russian spies. Then I was in Poland when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008. Then I watched as the world did nothing in 2014 when Russia took over Crimea. I have a few friends who had to flee their homes in Ukraine for their family's safety. I can't be a pacifist because this war is truly a just war: if Russia concedes defeat and retreats, it is necessary and obligatory for Ukraine to pursue peace to which I think even Zelensky will want.
Where have all the pacifists gone? Christian nonviolence guy here. Pacifist, if you like.
I agree that Ukraine's position is probably the closest thing we've seen in the modern era that meets standard Just War criteria (excepting reasonable chance of success). But more basically, it seems to me the question is not whether human governments should defend themselves against wacky neo-Byzantine autocrats. The question is whether children of light are to wield the weapons of the world. There seems to be no biblical or patristic evidence in support of doing so, and only evidence to the contrary. In truth, Just War theory is only a hairs-breadth from Christian nonviolence in practice, but reminding my Just War friends of this is typically met by their telling shagrin. I find that interesting. Especially in here in America on July 4th weekend!
I would be so curious, Dr Bird, to hear you as a patristic expert speak to this, and explain why you reject Christian nonviolence based on the NT and early church witness!
I believe Jesus calls us to non-violence. Hard to read him any other way. Jesus was not a pacifist, but did not resist violently. Therefore, I am not a pacifist either. I believe Christian’s should be non-violent. Earthly Kingdoms will always find themselves entangled in armed conflict. I believe Jesus call his followers to not participate. We are told to seek the Kingdom of Heaven. There is no violence in the (already and not yet) Kingdom of Heaven. Just war theory may apply to earthly kingdoms but not in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Can you please write a post about how just war fits with the theology we see in the New Testament. And how does Jesus continue or refocus our understanding of war in the Old Testament. I’m not a pacifist. I also don’t understand how a majority of Christian came to hold the view of just war.
Mike, have you read Caesar and the Lamb: Early Christian Attitudes on War and Military Service
by George Kalantzis? Preston Sprinkle did a podcast with him recently: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CWZDOvT5Qn8&pp=ygUqUHJlc3RvbiBzcHJpbmtsZSBkYXZpZCBjYWVzYXIgYW5kIHRoZSBsYW1i. Curious if you have any thoughts on Kalantzis’ work.
In this system of things ruled and mislead by the Devil (2Cor4:4) wars between nations are inevitable and prophesied but the only just war is God's war against the Devil and his demons and the kings of the Earth at Armageddon (the Mountain of Assembly).
I am sure that in C21 (and perhaps for a long time before), there is no such thing as a "Just war" - but sometimes they are inevitable and necessary in our imperfect world. It seems nearly impossible to meet all these conditions for war. And if we look at the last 100 years or so, how many wars have actually been just? Maybe a handful. So I guess that I am a "Pragmatic Pacifist" - non-violence if at all possible, but sometimes it will just not work.
I take the same approach as you on Just War after having read Augustine. I'm also a Republican, an American, and a supporter of the war in Ukraine. What drew me to Just War was Afghanistan and Iraq. I knew people who either struggled with, or had family/friends/loved ones, struggle with PTSD, death, and injuries. It dawned on me one day that we're sending young men to harms way to occupy nations to fight civilians...and all they get, literally was a lousy ribbon and a hearty "Thank you for your service." It was disheartening because these occupations had no end, we had no real enemy...and I couldn't support it.
But I do support the US's involvement in Ukraine. Mostly because I've watched Russia's involvement in the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election where a candidate was poisoned by Russian spies. Then I was in Poland when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008. Then I watched as the world did nothing in 2014 when Russia took over Crimea. I have a few friends who had to flee their homes in Ukraine for their family's safety. I can't be a pacifist because this war is truly a just war: if Russia concedes defeat and retreats, it is necessary and obligatory for Ukraine to pursue peace to which I think even Zelensky will want.