The problem in the modern church world with this passage, is it has been interpreted for a long time as three functions strung together, *with no context* to the rest of the chapter, especially V14, about other members of the body being necessary to function, as "each part does its work". The emphasis on these leadership gifts being the ones to do "the work of the ministry" has resulted in a picture of the pastor doing the bulk of the ministry in a given church, with a result of burnt out ministers, and lazy saints in the pews! The whole idea of perfecting vesus equipping is, to me, a distinction without a difference. These gifts fulfill perfecting or equipping, a hybrid of those 2 is probably accurate, simply by *being* that gift! A pastor pastors. An evangelist evangelizes. Their names describe function. But a huge part of the result of that is to activate ministry action in the saints. I think that's definitely on Paul's mind as part of these verses, and a 1 to produce 2 and 3 picture is best I think. But even a 3 string picture is not a problem if one treats it in the context of V14 being part of the reason for this section. Too many have tried to use Vs.11-12 to pin ALL *ministry* on the pastor, and the results are not good. I pastored for 38 years with a strong leadership model, yet continually emphasizing the people were being called to, prepared for, and actvated for ministry. The result was my sanity and a growing church! :-)
Then, how should we read Romans 12:6-8? Who is “we” and “us” in vv. 5 and 6 respectively? Who does the things mentioned in vv. 6-8? Who does the “ministry” in v. 7? Does this passage relate in any way to Ephesians 4:11-12? For what is the body of Christ being “perfected”? Is perfection an end in itself? Don’t we “ministers” perfect the body of Christ for the work of “ministry”? If disciples are charged with the making disciples, don’t evangelists perfect the church for the work of evangelism? For what do teaching-pastors teach—what is the ultimate end?
Generation Z values authenticity and collaboration so a pastor/teacher who doesn’t pastor/teach, an evangelist who doesn’t evangelize, a prophet who doesn’t prophesy and an apostle who doesn’t plant churches/new ministries isn’t going to fly. They need mentors AND practitioners. Neither Jesus or Paul even model some kind of “coach only” approach to ministry. I’m no Greek expert but I don’t even understand practically how someone in FULL TIME vocational ministry can only be content with equipping and not actually doing alongside….
I’ve never heard your view before. My last pastor believed his job was to equip everyone Else to do the work of ministry. He said this all the time quoting this verse. Then he put his feet up as we all did the work while he said he’d entered God’s rest! I never thought to question this verse. Now I have to look at it more carefully.
The problem in the modern church world with this passage, is it has been interpreted for a long time as three functions strung together, *with no context* to the rest of the chapter, especially V14, about other members of the body being necessary to function, as "each part does its work". The emphasis on these leadership gifts being the ones to do "the work of the ministry" has resulted in a picture of the pastor doing the bulk of the ministry in a given church, with a result of burnt out ministers, and lazy saints in the pews! The whole idea of perfecting vesus equipping is, to me, a distinction without a difference. These gifts fulfill perfecting or equipping, a hybrid of those 2 is probably accurate, simply by *being* that gift! A pastor pastors. An evangelist evangelizes. Their names describe function. But a huge part of the result of that is to activate ministry action in the saints. I think that's definitely on Paul's mind as part of these verses, and a 1 to produce 2 and 3 picture is best I think. But even a 3 string picture is not a problem if one treats it in the context of V14 being part of the reason for this section. Too many have tried to use Vs.11-12 to pin ALL *ministry* on the pastor, and the results are not good. I pastored for 38 years with a strong leadership model, yet continually emphasizing the people were being called to, prepared for, and actvated for ministry. The result was my sanity and a growing church! :-)
Hi Randy, well done for your faithful service. Yes, a pastor pastors, a teacher teachers, an evangelist evangelizes, that's how I think it goes.
Thanks! Now I'm 'retired & refired' as I'm still at that same church that I was at for all 38 years, serving in various other ways.
Then, how should we read Romans 12:6-8? Who is “we” and “us” in vv. 5 and 6 respectively? Who does the things mentioned in vv. 6-8? Who does the “ministry” in v. 7? Does this passage relate in any way to Ephesians 4:11-12? For what is the body of Christ being “perfected”? Is perfection an end in itself? Don’t we “ministers” perfect the body of Christ for the work of “ministry”? If disciples are charged with the making disciples, don’t evangelists perfect the church for the work of evangelism? For what do teaching-pastors teach—what is the ultimate end?
Generation Z values authenticity and collaboration so a pastor/teacher who doesn’t pastor/teach, an evangelist who doesn’t evangelize, a prophet who doesn’t prophesy and an apostle who doesn’t plant churches/new ministries isn’t going to fly. They need mentors AND practitioners. Neither Jesus or Paul even model some kind of “coach only” approach to ministry. I’m no Greek expert but I don’t even understand practically how someone in FULL TIME vocational ministry can only be content with equipping and not actually doing alongside….
Anthony, I agree, the ministers doing ministry are more than coaches.
I’ve never heard your view before. My last pastor believed his job was to equip everyone Else to do the work of ministry. He said this all the time quoting this verse. Then he put his feet up as we all did the work while he said he’d entered God’s rest! I never thought to question this verse. Now I have to look at it more carefully.