As a “northern baptist” now living in “southern baptist” territory, I too echo your sincere appreciation of southern baptists. The addition of complementarian theology to the Baptist Faith and Message was a mistake that ought to be corrected—thought admittedly a very difficult move to make (even if exegetical and theological arguments are very persuasive). At the very least, Southern Baptists could be accepting of both egalitarians and complementarians.
Wow!! What a balanced fair assessment of the SBC. As an Anglican "convert" I too am blessed by a rich heritage I have experienced with numerous members, scholars, leaders, and gifted women from within that tradition such as Beth Moore. I am also in agreement with Michael Bird's loving criticism of the denomination.
Michael - thanks for taking the time to respond. I so appreciate your blog posts each time they hit my email box. That's for raising key issues, both social and theological!
"Look, I won’t get into the “Conservative Resurgence” debate, but I’d rather attend a church where they’d rather read something by John Stott than the latest thing from Oprah’s bookclub." This is sort of an unhelpful comment. First, there is a lot of ground between John Stott and Oprah's book club. I find Stott good too, but there are a lot of other writers that are "orthodox" and perhaps would be between Stott and Oprah. This is a little rigid and needs to be expanded.
Not getting into or perhaps not wanting to get into the "conservative resurgence" debate is at best irresponsible and at it's worst ignorant. That "conservative resurgence" colored every SBC seminary, IMB, and NAMB across the board. People lost jobs, lives, etc. that cannot be overlooked. It is one of the major reasons why the SBC has their problems. Not the only reason . . . but a major reason.
I'd like to see this covered and acknowledged as a total failure for the future of the SBC when it came down and continues to be so.
Steve, I hear ya man, but other people are more qualified to point out to the downside of the conservative resurgence. Not least the moral deficiencies of the two people, Paige Patterson and Paul Pressler, who orchestrated it.
There is a sadly ironic juxtaposition of the two groups of women you’ve mentioned. You said the first group had to leave the SBC for refuge. That suggests that the culture there is one of “LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.”
Either you say that you “feel loved, appreciated, and encouraged in your churches and institutions” or you will be subjected to sexism, patriarchy, discouragement, and even harassment until you consider seeking refuge elsewhere. That has observably been the case for many, including Beth Moore, whom you sarcastically mentioned.
Hi Michael, I think many SBC women have had different experiences, good and bad, across SBC churches. I'll leave it to them to explain it rather than me telling the story for them.
As a “northern baptist” now living in “southern baptist” territory, I too echo your sincere appreciation of southern baptists. The addition of complementarian theology to the Baptist Faith and Message was a mistake that ought to be corrected—thought admittedly a very difficult move to make (even if exegetical and theological arguments are very persuasive). At the very least, Southern Baptists could be accepting of both egalitarians and complementarians.
Wow!! What a balanced fair assessment of the SBC. As an Anglican "convert" I too am blessed by a rich heritage I have experienced with numerous members, scholars, leaders, and gifted women from within that tradition such as Beth Moore. I am also in agreement with Michael Bird's loving criticism of the denomination.
Michael - thanks for taking the time to respond. I so appreciate your blog posts each time they hit my email box. That's for raising key issues, both social and theological!
"Look, I won’t get into the “Conservative Resurgence” debate, but I’d rather attend a church where they’d rather read something by John Stott than the latest thing from Oprah’s bookclub." This is sort of an unhelpful comment. First, there is a lot of ground between John Stott and Oprah's book club. I find Stott good too, but there are a lot of other writers that are "orthodox" and perhaps would be between Stott and Oprah. This is a little rigid and needs to be expanded.
Not getting into or perhaps not wanting to get into the "conservative resurgence" debate is at best irresponsible and at it's worst ignorant. That "conservative resurgence" colored every SBC seminary, IMB, and NAMB across the board. People lost jobs, lives, etc. that cannot be overlooked. It is one of the major reasons why the SBC has their problems. Not the only reason . . . but a major reason.
I'd like to see this covered and acknowledged as a total failure for the future of the SBC when it came down and continues to be so.
Steve, I hear ya man, but other people are more qualified to point out to the downside of the conservative resurgence. Not least the moral deficiencies of the two people, Paige Patterson and Paul Pressler, who orchestrated it.
There is a sadly ironic juxtaposition of the two groups of women you’ve mentioned. You said the first group had to leave the SBC for refuge. That suggests that the culture there is one of “LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.”
Either you say that you “feel loved, appreciated, and encouraged in your churches and institutions” or you will be subjected to sexism, patriarchy, discouragement, and even harassment until you consider seeking refuge elsewhere. That has observably been the case for many, including Beth Moore, whom you sarcastically mentioned.
Hi Michael, I think many SBC women have had different experiences, good and bad, across SBC churches. I'll leave it to them to explain it rather than me telling the story for them.
I hope they feel safe to do so.